Curse

NeHoMaR · Mar 28, 2007, 10:42 PM // 22:42

WHY the hell NO ONE play FA/JQ ??? is fun, BUT no one is there = you NEVER start!!!

Please, ArenaNet, do something for increase popularity in that places, I know you can make something smart, please!

Taki · Mar 28, 2007, 10:54 PM // 22:54

I know many players like the ability to just jump into the action with no hassle - that's part of the reason RA is so popular. It's important to keep gameplay as open and accessable to players as possible but I don't think elitism would be much of a problem.

Mainly because there's no fame in AB/FA/JQ. Teams in HA want ranked players because the only goal is to get as much fame as possible in the run and you're more likely to do that with a group experienced with HA. Similar to pve groups not wanting to take other players because they aren't level 20 yet and may reduce the chance of completing the mission/quest.

Also, AB/FA/JQ are just casual modes where the only goal is quick entertainment, faction or jade and amber. Only a complete tool would try to go through the same headaches to create a group for these as they would for HA or GVG. IMO there would be far more guild/alliance/friend groups than elitist shithead groups simply because everyone wants to have the most fun in the shortest time possible and spending X hours creating a team would defeat that purpose. The amount of guild/alliance/friend groups could only be rivaled by the number of PUGS. Don't underestimate the amount of people who don't have active guilds to play with or page-long friend lists.

And why would anyone take an issue with funky builds? If someone wants to try an all MM build why is that a problem? An 8-monk kurzick team in FA you say? How about an 8-mesmer lux team? Hello 5-BoA sin team. Hey look, four IWAY groups forming over there in the corner. So what? Others will join these groups if they fancy and they have every right to enjoy the game. They probably won't have much success but if they have fun then that's all that really matters. Spike teams are a PITA no matter where you go but that's a part of GW that we have to live with. Thankfully they are no way near as effective in open, splittable maps kinda like FA or maps with several objectives/control points like AB and JQ. Yes, a good guild/experienced team will roll a less experienced and coordinated group but that happens anyway when these players join FA/JQ/AB for fun.

Is elitism the only major concern then?

EDIT: I really like Guildmaster Cain's idea as well. Would be fun to see in GW2.

Puebert · Mar 28, 2007, 11:32 PM // 23:32

What about, like in TA, where you can enter with any amount of people?

Like, everyone has an option to form a party, but when they have however many people they want, they get grouped with however many left hey need.

Ex. (For Fort Aspenwood)

Team A has 4 people.

Team B has 3 people.

Team C has 1 person.

Team D has 8 people.

Teams A, B, and C get grouped together and team D enters their own game.

FoxBat · Mar 29, 2007, 02:17 AM // 02:17

FA/JQ are far too centered around extremely exploitable AIs to ever make it as an organized play mode. With such fast rezes, luxons would have a heck of a time pushing through to victory if the teams were even close to matched in skill and coordination.

Alliance Battles require a more nuanced explanation. Yes, you can't control what the other 8 are doing, but brining an organized capping team of 4 is already a huge advantage that turns most battles to your favor, and earns you faction faster whether you win or lose. Randomway is still popular nonetheless.

Puebert · Mar 29, 2007, 02:30 AM // 02:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

FA/JQ are far too centered around extremely exploitable AIs to ever make it as an organized play mode. With such fast rezes, luxons would have a heck of a time pushing through to victory if the teams were even close to matched in skill and coordination.

Alliance Battles require a more nuanced explanation. Yes, you can't control what the other 8 are doing, but brining an organized capping team of 4 is already a huge advantage that turns most battles to your favor, and earns you faction faster whether you win or lose. Randomway is still popular nonetheless.

Any one person can take mines, break gates, etc. by themselves.

I think it'd be rather fun.

FoxBat · Mar 29, 2007, 05:00 AM // 05:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puebert

Any one person can take mines, break gates, etc. by themselves.

Our posts really have nothing to do with each other. I was responding to the op, and I don't see how quoting my post makes any sense.

Puebert · Mar 29, 2007, 05:04 AM // 05:04

You said how easy exploitable AI along with co-ordinated teams makes it impossible to play coordinated.

If you can already exploit the AI by yourself, it doesn't really matter if you have 7 people backing you up or not.

Sorry for confusion.

FoxBat · Mar 29, 2007, 05:21 AM // 05:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puebert

If you can already exploit the AI by yourself, it doesn't really matter if you have 7 people backing you up or not.

Kurzicks can hide the gate NPCs safely behind the gates they are guarding by coordinating gate repairs and openings when an enemy is behind the lines. You then can't really kill them efficiently without an ele at that point, though that won't be enough since they will have monks on them.

A lot of my point has more to do with organized teams just playing better. Teams playing well would completely break the flimsy FA NPC mechanics.

Kool Pajamas · Mar 29, 2007, 06:22 AM // 06:22

An organized FA would be interesting, fun for a weekend maybe, but I seriously doubt it would make it more popular in the long run. I go to FA to goof around like in RA. I dont take it too seriously. I try to win usually. Sometimes I just go in to test/practice builds. I think a lot of others go for the same reasons.

FA doesnt really have any rewards worth organizing a team for. In HA you get fame for winning and get to open a chest winning halls. In gvg you get guild rank maybe champ points. In TA you get glad points. In FA you get....luxon/kurz points if you donate and takes forever to get to the next level, or amber/jade which is kinda worthless. Making a team for it isnt going to be worth the reward for most people I believe. At least not in the long run. Like I said before, for a weekend thing once in a long while it could be interesting but I dont see it becoming a permanent thing ever.

Taki · Mar 29, 2007, 07:12 AM // 07:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

FA/JQ are far too centered around extremely exploitable AIs to ever make it as an organized play mode.

Have you seen npc archers at VoD in GvG? A.I. doesn't get any more expoited than that

. Not even the girls on Girls Gone Wild can compare.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kool Pajamas

I go to FA to goof around like in RA. I dont take it too seriously. I try to win usually. Sometimes I just go in to test/practice builds. I think a lot of others go for the same reasons...FA doesnt really have any rewards worth organizing a team for.

Exactly. There is no reason or reward to organize a team for these modes other than pure enjoyment. Anyone that does must want to have fun. I like the thought of filling incomplete teams with other players too.

Again, it wouldn't make sense to make a permanent change to these modes because they're the only casual pvp we have outside of RA (and to some extent TA). But as an event I still think it would be a refreshing change.

Pakana · Mar 29, 2007, 03:12 PM // 15:12

Waiting for hours with my mesmer or ritualist to enter UW/FoW/Tombs is a serious pain, and if they ruined the random access to Fort Aspenwood, that would be a very sad day.

Instead allow please random team access also to other end game areas!! It would be nice if you could enter for example UW in a random team, too.

Fort Aspenwood would be terrible, if you could choose the team members. Kurzicks could just stay behind the gates and keep the NPC's alive with monks. That would give them a victory every time.

Cymmina · Mar 29, 2007, 08:22 PM // 20:22

I would be perfectly happy if FA/JQ required you to take a group of 4 (like AB does).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pakana

Waiting for hours with my mesmer or ritualist to enter UW/FoW/Tombs is a serious pain, and if they ruined the random access to Fort Aspenwood, that would be a very sad day.

Why waste time at Aspenwood, when Jade Quarry is better suited to both rits and mesmers?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pakana

Fort Aspenwood would be terrible, if you could choose the team members. Kurzicks could just stay behind the gates and keep the NPC's alive with monks. That would give them a victory every time.

And you don't think the Luxons would catch on with a suicide BM/Well of the Profane or Order of Apostasy team?

It has always been possible to get into the same game as their friends, but few people take the effort to synch their timers. Durring the FA/JQ event weekend, when there were 3 districts of JQ, a group of about 6 of us were able to get at least 3 of us into the same game.

Phantom Flux · Mar 29, 2007, 11:17 PM // 23:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taki

I'm curious to know what people think about pre-made teams in Fort Aspenwood, Jade Quarry, and Alliance Battles, if only as a weekend event. Do you think it would draw more players to these modes? What about your own personal feelings?

A few positives from the tip of the tongue are:

1. Players who crave a more organized setting would finally get to put their ideas and teamwork together in a different gametype.

2. Friends, guilds, and alliances have the chance to play with each other and include more of the same in a match.

3. A new metagame is likley to appear with (semi-)organized teams. Imagine a team in FA spec'd specifically to defend and push amber VS one dead set on breaking through bonds, spirits, wards, weapon spells and the like to assassinate Gunther. Or a Kurzick team so overloaded with offense that they catch an invading Luxons squad offguard, forcing a change in strategy and playstyle.
Also, split possibilities would make for crazy Alliance battles where everyone has to react to all the different maneuvors of the other team.

4. New things are usually fun for a while if for no other reason than they are simply new.

Obvious negatives to this would be:

1. Many players like the random team matching as it eliminates the stress and time of finding and organizing a group. I also feel this way at times.

2. If any actual map imbalances exist they would come to light, be exploited, and ruin the enjoyment of the other teams, especially if there's no way to overcome or outplay this advantage with tactics, or player skill.

3. Party wide skills like triple-aegis, heal party with hb, light of deliverance(?) etc. would need hard counters. To a lesser extent so would spirits and minions. Spikes are minor as they can be beaten with smart splitting. Soul Reaping, however, would be a MAJOR issue

These are just a few things from the top of my head. I'd really like to hear what the rest of the community thinks and what other positive or negative issues you think may pop up.

Incredibly lame. /unsigned.

jon0592 · Mar 30, 2007, 12:20 AM // 00:20

You guys keep saying people will go "GLF MORE ALLY OR ABOVE" or "R9 GLF MORE" but do they do this in AB? No. And do you really think people of that high status (rank 9, things among that line) would really come to FA/JQ? I don't think so.

Puebert · Mar 30, 2007, 02:49 AM // 02:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by jon0592

You guys keep saying people will go "GLF MORE ALLY OR ABOVE" or "R9 GLF MORE" but do they do this in AB? No. And do you really think people of that high status (rank 9, things among that line) would really come to FA/JQ? I don't think so.

Thats because in AB, you only need three more people. And there are groups that are like: "LF 1 Healer, 1 Nuker, and 1 Tank SI!".

Its just not as common any more since ABs are not as active as they used to be.

rohara · Mar 30, 2007, 03:55 AM // 03:55

i used to like playing at FA quite a bit (quit due to the leechers) and i don't think an organized team of 8 would be a good thing for it. however, it would perhaps be cool if you could form a party of up to 4 to play. i've taken guildies there and told em how fun it was only to see them get stuck on a team other than mine, leaving them rather lost and frustrated. i'd like the option of teaming up with a buddy or two, for sure.

but overall, FA/JQ could be greatly improved and made more attractive by:

- PUTTING A STOP TO THE *&^%* LEECHERS (*ahem*)
- creating a tutorial/explorable mode for those who are new to it
- increase amount of faction you earn there
- allow small teams to make up the whole of the team (it is a team effort, after all)

my 2 cents anyway.